Tzakhi M (00:00.916)
I'm OT.
Moti Elkaim (00:02.966)
Hey, Saki, how are you?
Tzakhi M (00:04.982)
I'm great. Thanks for coming on the show. This is our third episode. Let me start by just briefly introducing you and then I'll let you tell a little more about yourself. Moti is a friend far away in Jersey in the U.S. and you're the founder of Atlantic Brands, top writer on Medium, which is amazing about startups and investor pitching.
and of course an expert on pitching investors, storytelling, and a fractional CMO for a lot of very successful startups. Yeah, did I get it all?
Moti Elkaim (00:43.982)
Thank you, Tzachi. Thanks for being here.
Tzakhi M (00:48.168)
Likewise, anything else to add about your background?
Moti Elkaim (00:53.038)
No, I'm really excited about being in this podcast and I really love your line of work and what you're doing with emerging companies, matching them, pairing them with the right investors and helping them scale to where they need to be. So I think that's great. It's a well-needed service. Yeah, a bit about myself. As you said, I live in Jersey, the agency Atlantic Brands, which I founded almost two years ago, really focuses on...
investor pitching and fractional CMO services. And the core of what we offer founders, CEOs, entrepreneurs is the ability to really meet investors and connect with them and build the right pitch and storyline in order for them to convert on their fundraising efforts. So looking forward to sharing more about it in this podcast.
Tzakhi M (01:46.222)
Okay, great. I think we have something special to talk about because this is kind of a tough time for founders. It's hard to raise money and it kind of calls for maybe different measures than usual or maybe changing the playbook. Like there's kind of like a playbook of what a pitch deck, what a, you know, how to present yourself, how to tell your story as a startup.
And we've talked a bit about the fact that now people need to kind of think outside the box and do things a little differently. So, like, what, how do you, how do you frame this?
Moti Elkaim (02:34.146)
Um, there's a very simple way to frame it when it comes to investor pitching, and especially in today's market. And that is with the following statement. The pitch deck template is dead. Dead, dead, dead. If up until 2023, companies, founders used to go and follow the traditional template that says, let's start with the problem, then the solution, then the traction, then the finances, the demo, whatever it is.
Tzakhi M (02:46.431)
Okay.
Moti Elkaim (03:02.186)
and they came in the room in a very chronological order, that flow of presentations of investor communications is no longer working because it's not cutting through the threshold. What we need to understand is that what happened in 2023 and a little bit before is that founders were hitting the wall. The market changed and they realized that the way they are pitching is not cutting it anymore.
investors are saying no. And the reason they're saying no is because money, which exists, is not flowing out as easily as before. The sense of FOMO, the sense of term sheet competition was not a factor anymore. Investors were really, really careful with their investments. So what founders needed to do better from that point on is the ability to connect to investors.
And you can't really connect to investors when you're coming in and you're using the same flow of presentation, the same templated lingo that everyone else is using. I'll give you an example. I spoke to an investor once and the investor told me, look, if I'm going to hear one more founder coming into the room saying,
my company is reinventing, my company is redefining, my company is reimagining, we are revolutionizing. You need to understand that, you know, those investors are sitting in a room and one after the other, if everyone is coming and they're doing the same flow, that's it, you're just numbing the investor. And especially in tough times, you have those critical two to three minutes at the beginning of the presentation that you have to connect.
And we'll discuss through this podcast how to make that connection. But my number one tip is that, and my number one insight is that the pitch deck template is that you have to customize your investor pitching to your personality, your product, your energy, your team in order to make it work.
Tzakhi M (05:10.923)
You're still saying use a pitch deck, right? Like you still want to build a pitch deck. You're just saying build it according to your own storyline and not any regular order of things.
Moti Elkaim (05:23.362)
Exactly. And not only the pitch deck, it's the actual delivery, right? So we have the pitch deck that we're sending ahead of time to investors, but it is also the exactly the teaser deck. And there is also the actual delivery. Now in the actual delivery, again, if you're coming in, and we have the investor attention span, right? You have the first three minutes where their attention is really, really high.
Tzakhi M (05:31.446)
Yeah, like a teaser deck.
Moti Elkaim (05:49.27)
And if you're not able to capture it and maintain it with the right storyline, then it's going to fall. And once you get attention, span is falling, is going down. It's almost impossible to pick it back up. Um, and I'll share some tactics on how to do it well on how to keep it super engaged.
Tzakhi M (06:11.934)
Is it, are you saying that every startup needs to build its own flow that's specific to it? Or are you saying there's a new, there's a new, uh, there's a new, we need to throw away the old template and put in a new one. No, you're saying there's a, there's a, there's no template. Each startup has to build its own storyline.
Moti Elkaim (06:34.558)
Right. So there is no template, but there is a method. Okay. Uh, you don't need a template because a template means that you have one, two, three, four steps that you have to follow. But instead there is a method and that method is called the pit cycle, which I work by with all of my clients. I used to teach public speaking at Columbia and we used to work with the pit cycle in order to engage the listener in front of us. Now, what does the pit cycle mean?
Tzakhi M (06:44.75)
Okay.
Moti Elkaim (07:03.574)
The pit cycle is designed in order really to serve the attention span of the listener, of the investor, and make sure that they are engaged. It's divided to four parts in that cycle that their entire purpose is to keep engagement. Step one, start with a purposeful story. Your story should include the problem, the solution, and your target audience. It's a real life story.
that really inspired you to start the business. You're telling it in your own words as to why you embarked on that journey. Then after you told that story, speak about the opportunity, the business opportunity. Now the business opportunity is not about TAM, total available market. Investors do not care about those fancy numbers, the $50 billion TAM that every founder is telling them they're gonna...
they're going to capture. Because at the end of the day, there is not a single company on the planet that captured Tam. But what you have to do with the business opportunity is tell it in the context of the story, the purposeful story that you just shared. Now the business opportunity is not about the product, is about the process transformation. What we need to show in the pitch, according to the pitch cycle method,
is that we are coming here to change a process. And the process transformation is the scalable part that can be replicated in every company throughout the vertical. And that is a very important.
Tzakhi M (08:42.942)
What's the process transformation? Can you explain that a bit?
Moti Elkaim (08:46.194)
Yes, so there is a company called Carbine. I used to work for Carbine back in the day and I pitched Carbine for one investor and within 20 minutes we got the investment. Now Carbine is saying something very simple. Today when you call 911, your only way of communication is by phone, right? But what if you're not able to speak because you're in a very horrible situation, you're threatened?
What if you don't have the ability to speak? Literally, you don't have the ability to speak. Why not introduce new channels of communications like video and text? You and I are zooming right now. Most of the world is chatting via text. So they are enabled 911 centers around the world without the use of an app to text message with callers to 911, to video communicate with callers to 911 so they can have better visibility of the event.
So this is a process transformation. So rather than focusing on, oh, we have this product that sits in the cloud and it's the next generation 911 technology that forget all those fancy terms. Speak about the way your process is going to transform the way people work. Because that illustrates the opportunity to the investor. Your product is not the opportunity. Does that make sense?
Tzakhi M (09:46.114)
Thank you.
Tzakhi M (10:10.794)
Yeah, yeah, perfect sense. There's one thing I want to push back on a bit. Like you said, start with a story. And honestly, my thought was aren't investors going to be put off by that because
Moti Elkaim (10:14.914)
Yes.
Tzakhi M (10:27.466)
especially investors that are like the investor that you described, they see a lot of pitches, they have less money now, so they have, you know, their span of, they're even more edgy and nervous now, and their default response is to say no to everything. I understand that maybe you need to do it very well, so how do you do tell the story like that without...
putting them off or getting them feeling that like time is being wasted.
Moti Elkaim (10:59.114)
That's a great question. Now I understand why your intuition may say, well, if I'm starting with a story, it's going to push them off. But the opposite is true. Actually storytelling, there's a science behind it that allows people to process information and absorb information more than any other form of communications. Then we can dive into it. It's a whole session by itself, but we need to understand something. The reason we are starting with a story.
is because we want the investor to have the ability to visualize what we're doing. If they have the ability to visualize what they're doing, what we as founders doing, then they themselves can go and communicate it to their partners and sell it because what most founders don't realize is that the investor in front of you is not going to say yes and cut the check. And most founders are communicating and they're pitching to the investor in front of them as if they're trying to win the check.
No, the investor now needs to go to their partners, tell your story and convince the partner that this is a company worth investing. Now, if we want the investor to have that passion, to have the ability to communicate it very clearly, we want them to have the ability to repeat the story. They won't be able to memorize numbers.
Tzakhi M (12:10.286)
Okay.
Moti Elkaim (12:24.054)
They won't be able to memorize product features. They won't be able to memorize your finances. What they will be able to remember is your story. And if you can connect or if they can connect to your story, it's gonna be so much easier for them than to relay to their partners.
Tzakhi M (12:41.598)
Okay, got it. Yeah.
Moti Elkaim (12:43.69)
Now, the second part of your question is how do you get the story right? That's a very, very good question. Not an easy thing to do. This is why you need to practice. But my number one advice would be tell your story in a way that is real to you. Just tell it as it happened. Tell the investor what inspired you to really start.
that journey, that company. And once you're doing that, automatically, intuitively, you're gonna include the target audience and the problem in it. And that's a better way to introduce it rather than going with the problem, the solution, the audience, the demo, and all of those other steps because it's way more engaging.
Tzakhi M (13:35.502)
Okay, do you want to move up to the next step in the process or because I have some more questions about that opening part.
Moti Elkaim (13:37.056)
Thank you. We'll see you next time.
Moti Elkaim (13:43.41)
Yes, so we have the pit cycle method, which we said we start with a purposeful story, we transition to the opportunity that we need to communicate in the context of the story. So let's stick to Carbine's story to make it very easy to digest. So rather than coming in and say, look, we have a $30 billion total available market, which is a red flag for investors. No one is using TAM anymore. Speak of the opportunity, intangible.
Tzakhi M (14:08.919)
Yeah.
Moti Elkaim (14:12.918)
tangible numbers and measurable numbers. So with carbon, we can say something like, and there are 8,000 911 centers in the US alone. And if we are serving every 911 center, that's $200 per seat per month, and we're getting to this number, to this ARR. Do the best case scenario, worst case scenario, and then show how you can expand it globally. And that grounds
your entire pitch. That gives really tangible essence to your pitch because now it's in the context of the story but I can process it. I understand why the opportunity makes sense now rather than saying oh we have a 50 billion dollar tab. Make it real. Diving into the business argument which is the third step this is where we really describe the team as to why you
the competitive analysis. Why are you poised to solve that problem? And lastly, the fourth step is asking for money. Now, this is where the pitch cycle is really, really different than the traditional template because when we get to the fourth step, I always tell my founders when it comes to the money part, don't ask for an investment. Don't...
Tzakhi M (15:40.142)
Okay.
Moti Elkaim (15:41.158)
ask for an investment. When you get to that point, after you've done the purposeful story step one, the opportunity step two, the business argument step three, at that point you can look at the investor in the eye and say and if you're interested in learning how we're going to allocate the 10 million dollar round A investment, I'll be happy to share my go-to market and financials with you.
and move to the next phase of the presentation. The reason we're going with the interest because the interest as a CTA yields higher conversion than asking for money. Look, let's be honest, no one likes to give money. Even investors don't like to give away money. It's awkward when you're asking for money. When you're asking for money, you're sealing the presentation with this heavy weight on everyone's shoulder. Oh, we just asked for $10 million. Let them not.
Tzakhi M (16:20.846)
Absolutely. Yeah.
Moti Elkaim (16:37.418)
Let them say, you know what? That's interesting, Tzachi. I do want to hear, are you going to allocate a $10 million investment? I didn't ask for $10 million. I told you how I'm going to allocate the investment and that transition everything into a conversation mode, which is the goal of the entire pitch.
Tzakhi M (16:50.226)
Yeah. Yeah, that's brilliant. It's absolutely obviously in 99% of the time, people are not going to just cut a check at the end of the call. And there's a long much longer process that has to come after it. So there's no point asking for it. What needs to be at what needs to be?
Moti Elkaim (17:07.507)
Of course.
Moti Elkaim (17:14.267)
Exactly.
Tzakhi M (17:16.526)
asked or not even directly asked, but more subtly offered is the next step. So the next step is that basically this, the next step after the first meeting is another meeting, which goes in, which goes deeper and, uh, the way you framed that, can you, can you repeat just the way you framed that question? I think that's very useful.
Moti Elkaim (17:26.987)
Yes.
Moti Elkaim (17:36.326)
Yeah, absolutely. So when you're done with the first three steps of the, um, the pit cycle, and for anyone who's interested, all of this is available for free on Medium. Um, so just type in my name, O-T-L-K-I-M, the pit cycle, and you'll be able to find everything laid out for you, uh, word by word. So when you're done with the three steps and it's time for the money talk, look at your investor in the eye and say, and if you're interested,
in learning how we're going to allocate the 10 million dollars round a investment, I'll be more than happy to transition to the next stage of the presentation and share our go-to market and financials with you.
Tzakhi M (18:20.848)
Beautiful. One thing really stood out for me as missing, which is something that I think is super important and you didn't mention, but maybe it belongs there, but you just didn't mention it. I think most investors care, first of all, about what other investors are already in.
You didn't mention that. I wonder, does that belong somewhere, or is that something that comes next?
Moti Elkaim (18:47.774)
Right. So when you're going into the last part of the go-to market, and if you have other investors that are already in, that's great. That's obviously giving you a bargaining point, but sometimes you won't. You won't have other investors that are in. And the, and I don't think it's an obstacle. I don't think it's an obstacle to the presentation because if you don't have it, you can't put it in. And if you do have it.
In today's market, that's not going to be your selling point because we're not in a FOMO market anymore. Remember what I said at the beginning of the presentation in 2022, it was a battle of the, uh, the term sheets. Founders came into the room with term sheets and everyone didn't want to miss the opportunity and this is not today's market. If an investor is not able to connect to your story and to your vision, a term sheet is not going to do it for them.
and competing term sheet.
Tzakhi M (19:48.454)
Yeah, no, I wasn't specifically talking about a competing term, I'm just saying like, we are already backed by this VC or this well known angel investor. I think that means a lot to investors when they make a decision, because it's just human nature today, you want to rely on someone to know so most investors are followers, the majority. So
That's why I asked, where does that come in? Assuming that you do have some investors, even if those are investors from your previous round.
Moti Elkaim (20:12.177)
That's a very good point.
Moti Elkaim (20:18.742)
That's a very good point. And that will go into business argument. So in the business argument is you're elaborating why us, why are we poised to solve this problem, you can also detail. And those are the funds that are already backing us. Um, and that will give more weight to why you, um, but obviously in case you have it, if you don't have it, then that's a different story. Yeah.
Tzakhi M (20:38.45)
OK, got it. OK, so that's where it belongs, basically, in the business argument. OK, this same pitch cycle, is there like a condensed version of it for like an elevator pitch?
Moti Elkaim (20:58.814)
Well, here's the thing. Um, I'll go back to what you said that the purpose of the first meeting is the second meeting. The purpose of the first three minutes with an investor is getting them to listen for the remaining 40 minutes. And that three minutes, those first three minutes should be your elevator pitch. They should be articulated, not in a sense of
You know, this is what we do and this is what we're here to solve. If someone is engaging with you in a conversation, then I would actually say, I can tell you what I do or I can tell you a story. And it's interesting because this is how I was able to raise a good amount of money for car buying from an investor I've never met before. She asked me, what do you do for a living?
And I told her, I can tell you what I do for a living, or I can tell you a story. And this is where those two minutes story coming into play. I don't believe in one-liners. I don't think one-liners are going to do the job because one-liners do not give you context. So if you're trying to distill your pitch into our company is, I don't know, redefining the way 3d footprint printing is being made.
Moti Elkaim (22:20.994)
Okay. Where's the context? I, unless I'm really into 3d footprinting, I have no idea what you're talking about. And the entire idea of the pit cycle is to build context after context, after context. Everything is built in layers of context. So I wouldn't worry too much about a one-liner. I don't think that one-liners will take you so far as a founder.
Tzakhi M (22:47.47)
Okay, but you are, but if we're talking about an elevator pitch, you're basically saying the beginning, the story part is the elevator pitch. And it doesn't, the elevator pitch in your methodology doesn't contain like all the information that comes later in the presentation. It's just a story and how it translate into
Moti Elkaim (22:58.108)
is the elevator piece.
Tzakhi M (23:16.146)
into a product or into a customer experience.
Moti Elkaim (23:19.506)
Yes, and the reason I really focus on that, and that is where I believe most people get it wrong, is that they believe that the elevator pitch should answer all questions. What you do, why you do it, and how it's being done. I'm saying it's the opposite. It shouldn't answer all the questions. It should make the listener ask questions.
The elevator should be positioned in a way to start a conversation, not to give all the answers.
Tzakhi M (23:54.698)
Okay, interesting. Yeah, very different from the way I've been thinking about this, I must say, because in my mind, in a first interaction with an investor, what I would say to founders is, think about the most important things that investors care about. And
I talk about five things that investors care about. And if you have all five of them, highlight all five. If you have all three, highlight three. If you have two, highlight two. But take the things that investors care about the most. Whatever you have.
strengths in, highlight that and let them understand from the outset why they should be speaking to you. But you're telling it a completely different version of this. Just tell the story of the transformation that your startup is going to make.
Moti Elkaim (24:52.634)
Exactly, the process transformation. And I'll take what you just said and I'll narrow it even more. Because in storytelling and especially in pitching, we have what we call the rule of one. One problem, one audience, one solution. What you do, the best thing that you do is the focal point of your presentation. Now we have to remember that investors are like any other.
Tzakhi M (25:00.112)
OK.
Moti Elkaim (25:21.622)
person out there. You know, their brain appreciates simplicity. And as we said, they need to have the ability to reiterate, to tell your story to their partners. And I've seen it so many times where founders are putting so much in the presentation that they leave everything out. Meaning you need to focus on what you do best. The one thing that is at the core of your services.
Tzakhi M (25:32.558)
All right.
Moti Elkaim (25:51.658)
of what your company does. Articulate that one thing to your investor. If you're gonna say, if you're gonna feature dump everything that your product does, you're not gonna cut through the threshold.
Tzakhi M (26:04.886)
No, I wasn't talking about features at all. I was talking about things like investors that you have, traction, founder experience, moats, and business partnerships, and other forms of traction that you have. So those are things that investors care about as forms of traction.
objective proof that there's something worth looking into.
Moti Elkaim (26:36.006)
Right, and those things by the way, and we're not getting to those in full detail, and again, if you want, they go into the opportunity part and the business argument. Right? When you're going over the business argument, again, this is where you describe why you, the traction that you have, the team behind you, the investors that are already backing you. This is the business argument. The opportunity, this is where you go about the market.
Tzakhi M (26:45.886)
I see.
Moti Elkaim (27:03.666)
Okay, but not the market in terms of TAM, tangible numbers and opportunities that are coming in. So this is where those are the two parts of the pit cycle in which the information you just described is going to fall into.
Tzakhi M (27:06.443)
Yeah.
Tzakhi M (27:18.27)
Okay. Yeah, I think that's very clear. Yeah. The tam part, I think is also very clear. People get that. I think the biggest problem with mentioning Tams is that it's often wrong that people are talking about the whole market, whereas usually a solution only touches a very specific niche within a market. And it's much better to focus on a realistic.
projection and talk about, like you said, tangible numbers or X numbers of potential clients or X numbers of potential partners or collaborators that we can, that will be engaged with, etc. So yeah, that part is also very clear. Okay. This framework works for startups at all stages.
Moti Elkaim (28:10.47)
So here's the thing. It's really designed for emerging companies, I would say seed stage to B stage. Because the storytelling part, the engagement part, the maturity of the investors in terms of the type of investment that they are looking for is really tailored to the seed to B stage. This is where storytelling, human capital, the team power.
The traction that you can show. And when I say traction, I don't mean ARR, your ability to get design partners, your ability to do the research and improve demand for your product. That falls under traction. So it really fits into that mode. You know, from, from B onward, you're really focused on business scalability and numbers, unless you're going into a complete new venture and you want to sell that vision to, to new partners. But.
At that point, the business is so solid, the numbers are so grounded. And you're talking more about scale rather than building. And those are two different things.
Tzakhi M (29:19.147)
Yeah.
Tzakhi M (29:22.846)
Yeah. So, but for virtually all early stage startup stages, this is the framework. OK, brilliant. So people that want to learn this framework, they have it on Medium. People that want to reach you, what's the best place to find you?
Moti Elkaim (29:30.212)
Yeah.
Moti Elkaim (29:42.114)
Yeah.
Moti Elkaim (29:49.582)
Absolutely. So first and foremost, and I'm glad you brought it up at the beginning of the conversation, you mentioned Medium. I have a number of articles on Medium. I think at this point about 12 or so. And everything that I shared, you can find on Medium in great detail. And if you want to have a discussion, more than happy to speak to everyone, you can just go to my...
website atlanticbrands.co and just fill the form or you can reach out through LinkedIn. You can find me on LinkedIn and we can connect over there.
Tzakhi M (30:28.718)
Okay, we'll include the links, the link to Atlantic Brands in the description, and this will also come out in our weekly message to our subscribers. Monte, this has been great, super useful, very insightful for me. I have to rethink about a lot of things. Learned a lot, and I think this is super useful. Thanks so much, it's been great talking to you.
Moti Elkaim (30:56.27)
Tachik, thank you so much. Looking forward to collaborating with you in the future again. This has been wonderful.
Tzakhi M (31:03.33)
Thanks, Mutti.
