Tzakhi (00:00.182)
Hi Jonathan.
Jonathan Gan (00:02.333)
Hi, Tzachi, nice to meet you.
Tzakhi (00:04.722)
It's great to meet you because, you know, first of all, we're at the Meet.capital startup podcast, of course. And I'll just tell our listeners how we met, how we know each other. So we've known each other for a few years now. You were the founder of Wichit and I was then trying to help you find investors. I wasn't really able to help you back then, but you were able to do an amazing job, move your company to...
the UK and finally sell it just recently. So congratulations. And you're also a super interesting and super talented startup advisor. And I've learned a ton from you. You had that meeting in Tel Aviv in that lecture. And then I was reading your blog on your podcast. So I know I have a lot to say, but maybe I'll let you tell us.
Jonathan Gan (00:41.317)
Thank you.
Tzakhi (01:02.838)
what you're doing now and a bit about yourself and about your journey.
Jonathan Gan (01:07.829)
So yeah, first of all, thank you very much for having me. It's a pleasure. You just remind me a piece of history, like an ancient history somewhere with the dinosaurs. It was like, I think we met 12 years ago, something like that, or 11 years ago when I did...
Tzakhi (01:20.638)
No, can't be, can't be. Maybe six.
Jonathan Gan (01:24.873)
Six? Okay. Oh yeah, that was the fundraising, the first round. Yes, yes, you're right. I started with Wichita, I think the idea level was 11 years ago, 10 years ago, and six months into the project. We won a very big award by the UK government. We were based in Israel back then and they relocated us to London.
Back then it was, I would say, almost a Cinderella story for a young entrepreneur that barely know what is a product market fit and the MRR and ARR and all those combination of English letters. And yeah, we moved here in 2014. I mean, I'm based in London right now for the past decade.
And it was a massive journey. We ran few rounds of fundraising, won multiple international awards since then. And yeah, eventually last year I sold my startup. It wasn't the big exit I was hoping to, but it was a nice closure to sell your idea, your product, the IP.
to a massive corporate, which was another challenge by itself. Yeah. It was an interesting journey, I will say, trying to recap everything in a few minutes. It's almost impossible, but I will do my best.
Tzakhi (02:48.67)
Yeah, pretty amazing.
Tzakhi (02:59.978)
Yeah, well, I think it's also an amazing experience on a personal level because really you did the whole startup journey, like from the inception to the sale. And in a way, it's a classic startup journey. And also you've had your own level of adventure, which I don't think we need to bring up the whole story, but you had a very unique story going into the UK and then you had to retract and rebuild.
So I remember that distinctly, but I don't think we need to get into all that now. What I want us to talk about. Um, uh, one thing that it was, you know, that's how we worked together was around a Finder agreement. And that is, um, I think a very common way that startups work with advisors and, uh, and investment anchors. And there's a lot of confusion around it. Um,
And I think a lot of startups aren't really sure how to work, how to choose finders. Some may be treated too light-handedly, and others may be too complicated unnecessarily. So I think that's part of the work that you did, I mean, one of the ways that you raised money for which it
was working with various advisors that helped you and connected you. So is that something that we can we can go into a little?
Jonathan Gan (04:36.065)
Yes, yes. Raising fund is, I will say, the number one challenge for startups. Doesn't matter if they just on the idea level or IPO level. Raising money is raising money. It's the oxygen, the fuel to keep you going. Otherwise you bankrupt. If you want to grow, of course, you can always stay.
with your current MRR, but staying in the same spot eventually will kill you. So yeah, this is, I think, the most challenging in a startup. For the CEO, I will say the senior management, it's a full-time job. So if you're thinking you can combine both of them together, which means raising money to your startup while you're running your own startup, it's almost...
I will say it's almost impossible. It is possible because people are doing it, but once you're starting to do that, you feel the overload. It's 200% of a job and there is no such thing as 200%.
Jonathan Gan (05:44.921)
With Wichita I raised a few rounds of money, all of them were from angels. I raised a few millions, not including awards and grants, because on top of the raising money typically from angels.
We won multiple awards as I mentioned before. One of them is Innovate UK quarter of a million pounds to develop one of our algorithm. It's a even a half project. It's a grant from the UK government. It was a very successful project. So you have other sources of raising money. But if to concentrate for this conversation on raising money, yes, it's a challenge.
Yes, it's a full-time job and yes, it's a professional by itself. So if you are a young entrepreneur and you want to raise money, you need to understand that if you're trying to build your business, you have the challenges or the day work that you need to build a product. You need to get clients. You need to reach to your holy grail, which is the product market fit.
hire people, build your network. And parallel to all of that, you need to learn and you need to understand that raising money, it's a profession by itself. So you need, you must do it by yourself and you can take professional people to help you, which are the finders or business developers.
people that connected to a fund network.
Tzakhi (07:32.63)
Yeah, so at Meet Capital, we talk a lot about cold outreach to investors because what we say is your personal network will run out no matter who you are and very quickly. And then you want to keep talking to investors and keep moving forward. You have to reach out to investors. But of course, a way of growing your network is using other people for their network. And some people do that professionally.
Tzakhi (08:04.089)
What is like for you the number one criteria of choosing a person that will introduce you to other investors? Because you obviously wouldn't want to do, even have that from anyone, right?
Jonathan Gan (08:17.089)
Yes. So it's a valid point. I mean, it's a valid point. It's a valid question, but I think we need to take a step back before we approaching to other people and I will explain in a minute. If you want to, if I'm trying to make it pragmatic or as pragmatic as possible. Let's start with the prep. I met...
Tzakhi (08:36.938)
Yeah.
Jonathan Gan (08:44.805)
A lot of entrepreneurs in the past eight years, I'm advising and consulting to a lot of the dozens, I think even hundreds.
of entrepreneurs and startups with variety of topic in building a startup. Best, obviously, my experience and my knowledge. And one of them is raising money and majority of them, you see they're not ready. So for them, I'm the finder. I'm the one that so-called connect them to funds because I know investors. Obviously, or even if I'm trying to connect them to my network,
people that can help them instead of myself. But the number one, I will say failure, they're not ready. And when I'm saying they're not ready, you can see that, yes, they have an email, a kickoff email that they can send it to you and saying here, we are raising money. This is what we're looking for here. We have a pitch deck. But to be ready.
for an investment, it's more than just a presentation of 10 slides and a nice email. And it doesn't matter.
it doesn't matter how talented you are and you can express yourself in front of in an investor meeting you need to back up everything with appropriate due diligence your company need to be ready for due diligence which means once the investor telling you okay let's move forward you can't tell them
Jonathan Gan (10:20.661)
Oh yeah, let me just prepare the documentation. That's me. We're now working on the business plan. Oh yeah, we have a financial focus. It's Excel of two and a half sheets, which is an embarrassment.
and your financial or your business, the assumptions are very poor. So you really need to first be ready inside. I mean, I can elaborate more than that for during the conversation, but this is the number one criteria to even start to talk with people. Doesn't matter if they investor and it doesn't matter. It doesn't matter if it's Finders. Now, talking about Finders, to answer your question.
There are a lot of finders. Basically every person is a potential finder. Your friends from the army, the person you're meeting in the tube, people that are you connected on LinkedIn, and you don't even need the finders, you have platforms to that.
I think Igilevi has a very nice platform that you can just put your email in this time to connect you and there are other online services that giving you a list. But this is yellow pages. Eventually, this is yellow pages. So you can do that by yourself. You can use your network. And as you said it correctly, it doesn't matter who you are, your pool of network is limited.
even the most connected person in the world, eventually he or she are limited. I mean, the number of entities that is connected is obviously bigger than ours as individuals, but still it's limited. So there is a very good chance that me or you will know someone that could be very relevant to them, but they are not connected, even though they are well connected.
Jonathan Gan (12:15.545)
So you do want to expand your network. I mean, this is the theory network in mathematical discretion. We studied that, I think, in the first year of uni, every person that did any mathematical or engineering courses. The way to do that, and this is something that need to be very careful. Why? Because it can backfire at you.
And the reason of that is because the people that you're engaging with, they're represented. So if, for example, you and me know each other for years, right? So I know your quality, I know your network, I know your personality, I know your validation. I can almost guarantee that you will represent me correctly. Words can't backfire you if I don't know you. And yes, you know, you, you.
you have a network and you're starting to spread my email and my name and my company name throughout your network, which...
Could be nice, like, you know, in theory, it could be nice. But imagine that those investors resent you because you're a dodgy person and because you're spamming them. You're one of the people that, you know, every opportunity for you, you're not taking it. I'm not saying taking it seriously, but you're working on quantity rather than quality. And what you want to find is an investor, and they're sorry, finder that work on
quantity because quantity again is the yellow pages. You don't want to do that. And it's almost like dating. You don't want your name to get to the right people by the wrong people, or not necessarily even by the wrong people, but not with the right people. So you want to make sure that it's the right people along the chain.
Jonathan Gan (14:13.261)
And the reason of that is because if you get into an investor and they already heard about you, they already got the first impression on you, even though that you never spoke to them. And even by the way, the finder can do nothing wrong, but the way they represent you wasn't good enough, wasn't perfect. And then when you come into the investor,
to another party or another channel or in a month's time. Oh yeah, we heard about you. No, no, I'm not interested. And you have no idea, we have no idea what, why. So to your question, you need to find the right, you need to find the right finder now. Now,
once you find the right finder and it's not so hard by the way just seeing their resume you see the their connection you see how they represent themselves you need to understand few things it's a temporary why it's temporary because even those even the most quality the quality finder their network is limited
So they will know I'm just throwing numbers between two to 10 relevant investors to you. They can know a lot of people. That's absolutely fine. But they're relevant to you, to your stage, to your domain, to your personality, to your startup, to your stage. It will be somewhere between one, two, two. I don't see, I don't see more than 10. Ten, ten it's a lot. Like if.
someone knows 10 relevant investors for you, wow, that's super high. The intro process will take a few weeks. Let's say with rolling and follow-ups, two months, no more than three months, and then that's it. You're finished.
Jonathan Gan (16:19.781)
the finder. Basically, you finished the booster. Imagine like it's a video game and, you know, with a car, you know, when we were kids, maybe you still play. And along the way, you have those barrel of nitrox or booster. And then like, you know, your car is like...
Tzakhi (16:27.958)
Yeah.
Tzakhi (16:35.455)
Yeah.
Jonathan Gan (16:37.145)
having like a kickoff and then for, but this booster, you always have the extra timer, like, you know, it's a 30 seconds, 10 seconds and it's dropping down, right? And then you finish the booster and you are going back to your hundred kilometers per hour, whatever the game gives you. So it's exactly the same with, with Finders. You need to drive very fast and very well along the way by yourself.
And from time to time, you will find a good booster, a good finder that will give you a proper kick. And you will be able to boost your speed based on their energy, on how much they bring you to the table. But eventually it will run out. That's it. It can't help you anymore.
It can help you along the way, like, you know, in a year time, three years time, uh, it will, it will drop you like after six months, Hey, I just met this person. I think, but that will happen in six months time, but their current network, that's it. It's limited for maybe a few weeks, top three months, I will say. Um,
Tzakhi (17:31.563)
Yeah.
Tzakhi (17:50.034)
Yeah. Jonathan, I want to just pinpoint something you spoke about earlier. Basically, anyone can be a finder if they know someone. Can you say something about the difference between how to deal with a one-off kind of finder? You meet someone in an event and they say, wow, your startup sounds amazing. I know this investor. I'm going to make an introduction. That's one type of situation and a different type of situation.
is business people that kind of do it on an ongoing basis, either as their main business or as part of their business to introduce startups and investors. So can you say a bit about how you deal with those two types of finders?
Jonathan Gan (18:35.425)
Okay, so I'm not, my approach, let's take a step back, in the macro level, my approach to investment, it's not one-off and it's not even two, this one or this one. My approach to investment, it's very robust, it's macro level. The moment I'm running a startup,
whatever if I'm one of the founders or running one. It's a lifetime process. It's a marathon with infinity kilometers. Like the only time this process ends up is when you're selling your company. Until then, this is an ongoing process.
from the moment you have the idea, and it doesn't matter what is the stage of the company, this process is running in the background. Like you will never stop eating or drinking or taking a shower or brushing your teeth. So the operation of your day-to-day life, it's the same goes with the operation of the investment. And I will explain. When I started Wichit, you're starting to use your network.
And in the beginning, as a young entrepreneur, first time that you're starting your network is very limited. Today, when you're starting your second, third, fourth startup, your network is already established. It's easier to reach people. Your network is still limited. I mean, it's always limited. It's never infinity. But the basic one, the first level, the first connection, the second connections are much more stronger and much more quality, I will say.
But when I started with it, I created a program. I built a program on Excel. I mean, everyone can do that by themselves. They can do that more sophisticated or less sophisticated. It depends on their level on Excel. But the point is that I created almost a CRM for investment. And the key to this approach,
Jonathan Gan (20:53.697)
It's not the sophistication of the Excel and not this. I mean, you can use a lot of other products, CRM, HubSpot or whatever, any CRM. The key is not the sophistication of the tool. The key is your OCD level, I will say, of managing it.
the more you are OCD and I will take the OCD as a positive, disturbing personality, you will be surprised, you will get better results. And I will explain, every person from the beginning that they were even remotely, even remotely connecting, they have a connection relation to investment, to money, they're on my list.
And then I manage all the list of the people and their status, what is their status. And then I create this basically the database of your clients, of your network and each entity, the person or company, it doesn't matter. They also have their tag, like are you a finder? Are you an angel? Are you a VC? Are you a company? Are you a strategic investment? Are you a corporate investment? I mean, it depends.
the segment, I will say, the segment. But the most important was the log book. So I created another sheet in the Excel. Everybody can do that. I mean, again, the weight and the power, it's not about the tool, it's about how you managing it. Every transaction, when I'm saying transaction, it's email, a telephone call, video, meeting, anything.
The moment I have any transaction with, from me or to me, I, interaction, sorry, interaction. Yeah, you're right. I put it very simple, like almost army style summary. Half of a sentence, not even that's one sentence, not even a grammarly correct.
Tzakhi (22:48.014)
think the word you need is interaction, not transaction.
Jonathan Gan (23:12.253)
Tzachi, pitch, three million. Which means I had a meeting with you, and that day it was a front-alic meeting or video meeting, and I pitched you with it, and we talked about three million. A dollar or pound depends, I mean, it's matter. And then in the beginning it doesn't make sense. But after six months, after one year.
I started to meet people and eventually they think, oh, I can introduce you this VC or this angel. You will be surprised on their faces when I show them the Excel and it's like, yeah, which VC, which person? And I just went to the log and I just filtered the Excel. And you can see all the interactions that I have with them and you see, oh yeah, you know what?
The last interaction was six months ago. I met with this person and they said it's too early. We are now six months after, you know what? Yeah, go for it.
Give me an introduction because now the follow-up, it's a totally different level. It's not you, it's actually my finder, going to them and say, Hey, I have this Jonathan with this startup cool widget and they're doing blah, blah. It's you already met Jonathan six months ago. Listen, I met them now. I know you spoke with them. So the whole conversation starts from a different, from a different level. It's this.
gave me so much power and so much control on the process that again you need to the approach to the investment it's robust it's not i'm running now a fundraising around fundraising for half a million or one million it's like a whole war and
Jonathan Gan (25:15.809)
Every time I'm dealing with a different battle because the battles are moving forward. Some of the battles you lose, some of the battles you win. But you should not manage the battle. You should manage the whole arena, the whole war. And that's, I think, one of the key differences.
that entrepreneurs, ag-interpreneurs are missing. You should make...
Tzakhi (25:48.01)
Yeah, I think for most people, they'll feel it's almost impossible to even take that approach because it's so messy and so difficult for them just to manage their... There's so much going on, like you said, it's working 200% of the time. And I think also a lot of founders also just by their nature don't have that kind of order
orderly type of logging everything and keeping track. But I think I definitely understand the point, which is it definitely can compound over time and definitely bring a lot of value. And by the way, it's also a level of seriousness that shows both the finder and the investor afterwards that your mean business and the chances of having a success, come having success out of that interaction is
is obviously much, much higher when things are managed and when everyone feels that things are taken seriously and their time is respected and not, oh, yes, but actually you have the data and you know exactly who you're talking to and where you've met. Yeah, I think one thing that I notice about a lot of finders, there's,
For me, the point about the one-off finder and the multiple finder is that those that do it on a one-off basis often end up not making the introduction because it's a moment in which they feel excited during the conversation and afterwards they feel that it's actually too awkward to execute on. They don't really feel comfortable reaching out to the investor and making the introduction and then those actually don't happen.
Jonathan Gan (27:42.927)
You mean they invest the finder or the entrepreneur?
Tzakhi (27:44.482)
The finder doesn't go ahead and doesn't make the introduction, not because they don't believe in it, but because it becomes awkward if it's not something that they're used to do. And if you know an investor, you don't want to bother them, or if you know someone that's a serious business person, you don't want to bother them every time you saw something that you think is exciting and interesting for them, it has to be really, really a good fit. As opposed to...
a finder that does it a lot, and then they're more willing to go ahead because that's their style, but then there is the risk that they are doing it too light-headedly and not representing you in the right way, or that they don't have a good image in the eye of the investor, and therefore when they make the introduction, they're actually damaging you.
Jonathan Gan (28:32.221)
here.
Jonathan Gan (28:35.453)
But I think I have to step in. I think.
Jonathan Gan (28:43.153)
There is another problem here. From what you're saying, it's like, you know, you're coming to a entrepreneur, even young entrepreneur, when they come into a finder, they're like, coming to the doctor, like, is above me, is the professional, and help me. And they're coming and they're asking, okay, please save me, like approach, or.
do the work for me because I don't know how to do it. Or you're the big finder, you know the people. So here, prove me and what you can do and bring money to the table. And yeah, I will give you your X percent, X percent and many, many times it will say, okay, you know what, even...
add more percentage, like, you know, if you're such a big shot and you think you can, this is, this is so wrong approach. It's ridiculous because it's the contradict your, the position of the entrepreneur, the entrepreneur, the CEO, the founder, he's the one on top. He's the one that managing. So
And I mean, I'm sorry, I don't want to, God forbid, demolish anyone, but the finders, they are just the minions along the way. They are the boosters. And again, let's go back to the game with the car. If you're getting the booster, you're not dropping your hands from the wheel.
Tzakhi (30:04.022)
Right.
Jonathan Gan (30:15.061)
And you say, OK, I got the booster. Now I'm like, I'm flying now in the air. And my hands are like, you know, you can continue to drive. No, the only thing that you got is just a better fuel. It's just a better power.
Now it's your responsibility as the founders, the CEO, as the one is managing this arena, is to manage it. And if you cannot do that on 100 kilometers per hour, you'll never be able to do that in 1000 kilometers per hour. You're going to lose yourself. And one of the things that I met when entrepreneurs come to me and say, okay, give me introduction. And I'm like,
Tzakhi (30:49.834)
Right.
Jonathan Gan (31:04.085)
Okay, who do you need? What do you have? Like, you know, are you ready? And you're having a conversation and you see they're not ready. And me as a finder, I'm not a finder per se, it's not my job. If I can introduce someone to someone, I will do that happily. But I'm not going to waste my time to work for you or spend my time for you and You will be surprised. I mean, it sounds weird, but you will be surprised.
how many times finders would not want to work with you, as you mentioned before, and you have no idea why. And I will give you one example. A few weeks ago, there was this young startup approached me, dropped the names right now, and they asked me for an intro. And in the beginning, they approached me through a friend, a common friend, and they sent me an email in Hebrew.
Like, you know, hi, for me, Jonathan, because I'm speaking Hebrew, no problem. Uh, to my private email and you know, we have an email chain that me and them are communicating to schedule the meeting. And then we having an intro meeting, like a video, 10, 15, 20 minutes. You don't need more than that. Hi, hi. I, and I said, you know what? I can introduce you to this, to this guy. I think, I think he, I think he can help you. Uh, that's not.
I mean, what they you guys are doing, it's less my terrain. I'm not familiar with, but I can just do it to someone. So for you as the founder, I just open you another route that you can go with the car and with a booster. Like, you know, I'll give you a key. And I said, just send me a kickoff email. And I said, I will assume that you know what is the kickoff email.
because the whole, if we open, I know this conversation is not about that, but there is a whole theory about intro, how an intro should look like. And yeah, you'll be surprised how many people fucking up in this level. Like they don't know how to do this intro dance. I mean, to the level that, I'm not joking. I wrote an article, the TORATA intro, the...
Jonathan Gan (33:23.617)
the theory of intro how to do this dance even with a drawing and I see people sometimes struggling with that so I'm sending them a link hey read this article please before you're sending another email anyway so he sent me an email intro in our email chain now it sounds silly but what do you want me to do to forward now to a person
with all the email chain that you and I spoke, part of it in Hebrew. In your email that you wrote is with the title, Meeting with Jonathan in Hebrew. Man, this is not professional. So what do you expect me to do? I mean, it sounds, it sounds lazy, but I'm not gonna take now the content of your email, open a new email, do the work for you, put that touch, clean it.
Tzakhi (33:55.307)
Yeah.
Jonathan Gan (34:21.029)
Put your signature nicely because it's ruined by the forward and the copy and everything. Fix all the font and all the size, right? Put a proper CCU and create everything for you. Well, I'm your PA, I'm your secretary. Man, that's your job, that's not my job. You know, the movie Jerry Maguire, Help Me to Help You, right?
Tzakhi (34:43.211)
Yeah.
Jonathan Gan (34:44.041)
The responsibility is on the founder. You are the general of this war. You are the one who need to manage everything to the equal level. And if you cannot do that, don't expect other people to do that. So if a finder, if you're meeting a finder or, by the way, when I'm saying finder, it can be a professional finder. And it can be, as I said before, you know, your friend from the army. So.
You need to help them, you need to feed them, you need to get to the level that they are your, almost your minions. And you need to tell them, not just ask, not tell them, ask them what you're looking for. You need to be as specific as possible. And after that, you need to feed them.
Here is the email. Here is the information about us. And off topic, I'm telling you verbally in our meeting, or I'm sending you a parallel meeting, a parallel email that admin. So you and I can continue to talk about the topic, but the topic itself.
is in the professional intro email kickoff that you can take my professional clean email, forward it to your guy today or next week or a month, it's already there in your email with the proper title, with the proper content. And then the other person, the investor can reply to you and we can do this intro dance.
up to the point that I'm dropping you off because, you know, I don't need you anymore. You gave me, you gave, you're the key. You know, once I'm open the door, I don't need the key anymore. I mean, you do want to keep the key all the time because it's like in your house, you're not opening the house and throwing the key to the bin. You want to use that as much as possible. And this is relationship management. And you said before something that,
Jonathan Gan (36:49.233)
Most of the entrepreneurs are not organized in that level. And I think it's not true. And I will explain. If we were talking about clients, it's exactly the same. You have the AIDA model, awareness interest desire reaction, the basic funnel from the eighties of marketing. So if you're my CMO,
chief marketing officer or your marketing manager and we're talking about clients, you will see all the entrepreneurs, all the founders understand that and relate to that and they know and everybody knows that to get a new client costs much more than retain a current client or even someone that already interested in your product. So if I'm getting your email as a
because you subscribe, because you put your email or register to my service, because you started a onboarding process and you dropped off because you dropped the basket in the middle. I already got your email. I already got you, right? So my approach to you now would be a totally different. I'm not gonna send you now a general.
marketing ad that's saying, hey, we're this company and we're doing they already knew you. They already know you, I'm sorry. So it's exactly the same with investors. If so, it's easier. Because the quantity is much less. I mean, with marketing, you you're reaching millions, hundreds of millions, right? And you're hoping to get 1000s with investors, you're reaching dozens and you hope to get one two
Tzakhi (38:21.737)
Yeah.
Jonathan Gan (38:40.525)
So it's exactly the same, but instead of quantity, you have the quality, exactly the same. If I got the attention of an angel or a good finder, I will continue to keep the relationship with them even if they say no. And that's what I started to say before with the XA, with the transactions.
So what I will do is, even if I had a meeting with you, Tzachi, you are an angel, and you're saying, listen, I mean, that's not for me. That's not for me, or I'm not really understanding marketing technology, which it was back then, which it was marketing advertising technology with machine learning. So I met investors along the way.
that not investing in this domain, which is absolutely fine. But I already have the connection with them and money brings money. So what I would do is I will put, I will create a future interaction with TBD. I will throw a date like to the future, or I will just put a TBD and to be defined. And
every month, I mean, if I'm in the process, or not even in the process, even if I don't need the money right now, I will go and I will filter all the TBD, all the future dates. And I will just, like, you know, in marketing, what are you doing? Email marketing, right? To your subscriptions.
Hey, Merry Christmas. I mean, now it's the, we are in mid December. So all the companies now, all the e-commerce companies, Merry Christmas. You really want to tell me you care about my Christmas or my Hanukkah, really? No, the only reason you're sending me with Merry Christmas and giving me like solidly 20% is because you want to increase your EBITDA at the end of the year and create new sales because it's the best approach. It's exactly the same every quarter, every month.
Tzakhi (40:23.414)
Yes.
Jonathan Gan (40:49.505)
Send an email, a nice email and not a mass email. Not a mass email because again, quality, not quantity. And go one by one. Hi, Tzachi, how are you? Just to let you know, we got this contract. I mean, remember six months ago? I mean, you're starting a conversation. And by the way, you're not sending a new email. You're taking the last email that you and I communicated.
Tzakhi (41:12.127)
Yeah.
Tzakhi (41:17.514)
and the same thread.
Jonathan Gan (41:18.941)
six months ago, four months ago. So the Tzachy forgot about Jonathan and Wichita, you know, we had like a two and a half interactions and I mean so-called you're the investor and I'm the entrepreneur and we engage with each other and you know you forgot about me so you can see the history instead of me telling you
Remember we met six months ago and I told you this and you told me that so I'm just like you know in a non-chalant I will take the last email. I will reply to you and say hey just to let you know we are still I don't know on the wrong. I mean raising money now. It's half a million and not two hundred K a or Just say remember the contract we got it it's
very good because Tzachi will say, oh wow, I totally forgot about you. But you know what? A month ago, I met my friend who is another investor and he wants now to invest. So it's, you're building a relationship and in order to do that, it's exactly like marketing, but for investment. And for that you need the tool. And again, the tool,
Tzakhi (42:27.232)
Yeah.
Jonathan Gan (42:39.801)
use Excel, use Airtable, use any platform. The power is not in the technology. The power is in your OCD level to manage this whole war, but in the battle level. And that, I think this is the right approach for investors, for, I'm sorry, not investors, for entrepreneurs. And
the angels and the finders, they are just the leads. You need to manage all of them. So to your question in the beginning, how would approach this option or this option, the first one say, it's exactly the same. It's all part of the process. It doesn't matter if I met you one time and it doesn't matter if you are a finder that I have a contract signed of a finder fee or something like that, which is a topic by itself.
Tzakhi (43:13.527)
Yeah.
Tzakhi (43:37.846)
Jonathan, I think if founders take what you're saying and put it into action, have a CRM of all their investors, all their interactions, all their definers that they come along the way, keep the emails of all the people they interact with, follow up with them regularly, and keep and have a vision of a long journey, at least a few years ahead in which you're able to.
Take advantage of all the people you met along the way because you kept track and you know exactly where to belong in your overall story Then definitely they'll have a lot of success and a lot of a lot more success than they would have without that Jonathan this was really wonderful And I have a feeling that we can probably do this again some time and go deeper on another topic because it really has so Much and really personally I learned a ton from you today and every time we talk so
Jonathan Gan (44:28.358)
That was super marvellous, there are so many...
Tzakhi (44:33.531)
So thank you so much. Where do people find you?
Jonathan Gan (44:40.386)
Uh, www.JonathanGun.com. Very simple. I mean, I started the blog. Yeah, I started the blog. Actually it was starting as a, I'm doing for the past few years. As I said, as it started as a hobby and then it's like almost a half professional that I'm advising to startups and entrepreneurs. And very quickly I found myself repeating a lot of the things that I'm saying.
Tzakhi (44:44.33)
Easy.
Jonathan Gan (45:07.329)
So I just took a lot of the things, for example, how to raise money for in the seed level, and how to work with finders. And for both of them, by the way, I wrote an article, almost like I'm not an article, it's a guide, like a professional guide. So I started to put it on my blog and very quickly, every few months, I'm finding a new topic and I'm putting it there. So you can find me on jona
Tzakhi (45:33.526)
I'm reading your stuff and actually a lot of your articles I read more than once. It's really super useful. I recommend it 100%. So www. find Jonathan, reach out. Jonathan, thanks so much. We'll talk soon. Bye. Bye bye.
Jonathan Gan (45:38.951)
Thank you.
Jonathan Gan (45:42.689)
Monday I will collect everything with the book.
Jonathan Gan (45:51.077)
Thank you. Thank you very much. Cheers. Bye bye.
