Tzakhi (00:01.432)
this week.
Besnik (00:02.702)
Aye, Zaheer.
Tzakhi (00:04.536)
Very good to have you with we're with Besnik Vlilaku, the CEO of Sales Flow, which is a sales engagement platform, which we'll talk about in a minute. But first of all, we're on the Meet .Capital startup podcast, where we talk about things that help startups, especially early startup startups grow. And Besnik, you're a very inspiring entrepreneur. I know you've you've built and been built.
been involved with a lot of companies and now you're leading Sales Flow, which is quite an exciting success story that, you know, a company that grew over the last year. I also have been kind of following the journey of Sales Flow. So very, very happy to have you.
Besnik (00:52.974)
Thank you. Likewise, I'm excited to dive into some key stories and answer any questions and beyond. So thank you for having me.
Tzakhi (01:04.248)
Perfect. So maybe you can start us off by telling us a bit about how you built SalesFlow, maybe a bit about your background if you'd like to add. But I'd like to know about how you built SalesFlow and specifically on how you funded it because I know a lot of it was really bootstrapped, which is unusual for a software company.
Besnik (01:25.102)
Sure. Well, I think, you know, if you look at taking a step back, it's always, they say that the dots connect ultimately over time that lead to where you are. And I've had in the past, and so I was young since that sort of age of 16, at the early age, I've had a lot of MVPs in the course of last sort of 10 plus years. And ultimately I went from B to C and then dived into B to B in a sort of sequential way. And...
each of those B2Bs, the MVPs that I created over those years, completely bootstrap, very sort of experimental -led validation and so forth. When I moved on to creating SalesFlow, at the beginning, one problem they all had in the previous MVPs that were created.
was that they all needed leads and opportunities to drive our pipeline. So that was one of the key things that I wanted to go and mold and solve. So then of course, the existence of cold email and LinkedIn really became a cornerstone to how to make that metrics work. So a lot of it, before we started developing the solution, you would use humans, you would validate it by, hey, let's try it manually, because this kind of method was working.
in through Viziont, I had it as another company that I'm part of, you know, for financial planning and forecasting. I was using initially methods to grow that business and one of the key things that we realized is that the particular methods that we're using in conjunction with both LinkedIn and email was phenomenal.
compared to the conventional call -in because you need manpower to do that so we can afford it as a business. We even had funding for Vision at that time. So then you have what, a large budget for advertisement. Not everybody has a large budget. So what happens is that what are you left with to do prospecting, to do business development? Ultimately, you need to find ways to...
Besnik (03:36.974)
that's to generate predictable pipeline, at least opportunities conversations. And that was really on LinkedIn and email. Those were the two cornerstone channels that worked manually very well. So then we thought, look, we're getting all these opportunities and effectively at like what? $10 per acquired lead.
Like for example, that's incredibly low for high overview B2B opportunities. Because most of your talk, you're talking about $500, maybe $1 ,000 per opportunity gained through apps. That's an incredible number if you look at the unit economics. So that's how ultimately we want to find ways to automate that naturally. And this was by the way, six, six, seven years ago, right? It wasn't amassed by 3001 tools out there.
It was still failing you. And, you know, to some degree, we created a lot of the LinkedIn outreach category, you know, because that's when the flood of competition came out, ultimately from that. And that's kind of how, at least, you know, why we decided to create SalesFlow was because we were solving a problem that worked manually, ultimately, right? The whole point of software automation.
Tzakhi (04:51.768)
and you were solving a problem for yourself. So this was something that you were doing for your own companies and realized that it worked and then figured out that this is something that probably lots of companies work. So you had a very intimate understanding of the problem and the demand for it and then you went ahead and built a solution for it.
Besnik (04:54.702)
I - what -
Besnik (05:11.15)
Exactly. Precisely that because sometimes people forget, like ultimately you're your best customer. Like if it solves your problem and you're able to find a way that you can do this for others, then excellent. Because even in the past, every idea that I was pouncing on, particularly if a lot of business owners out there that are trying to work out what to do, it's like, well,
figure out what problems you have and solve those because you are your best customer. So that's where a lot of my MVPs became because I was, when I was trying to book something, for example, on a site that wasn't available, I want to solve that problem. Then I had the real estate challenge where I was trying to find...
a way to better manage all these viewings or real estate listings or contract and deposits for example. That was another venture way back because I was solving my own problem. So you nailed that. You're absolutely special because that's exactly how it works. Because there's no point trying to solve someone else's problem when you don't really know 110%. And the best way to experience problems is to branch out your experience ultimately, right?
to find the right sort of ideas for businesses that you generally solve. And then it's up to you to understand the magnitude of the problem you're tackling. Because it can be a micro problem where it's, you know, people still willing to solve by paying money or a macro problem, which case, you know, sometimes it really requires a lot of funding, a lot of capital to really have an impact.
Tzakhi (06:45.496)
I can really relate to the way you started because Meat Capital was born in a similar way. We had a startup that at some point...
had the idea of building a marketplace for investors and founders and we wanted to bring a lot of investors on so we got very good at reaching and connecting to investors and then I realized that that in itself is really what the startups need and so I started the agency. So yeah, I can really relate to that. I think it's a great way to start and when you started SalesFlow, how did you kick it off? That is I think maybe the hardest part.
Besnik (07:24.782)
You know, you're absolutely right. There's a small story with this, you know, as the inflection point of growth begun, I remember all the MVPs before I had, I was spending a lot of money, a lot of personal money, completely bootstrapped in creating MVPs, obviously not at perhaps 100, 200k a pop, but ultimately it compiled up. So I also, I realized I wanted to work with this partner.
And I found a co -founder, a CTO, for example, to work collectively. I'm more on the commercial front. I mean, I did some good in the past. So obviously that, that's, you know, that married up. We, we built a solution, very low costs. We talk about, you know, funding, like people typically even need money for product people or perhaps, you know, growth ultimately. Right. So I solved that puzzle of creating the business through a CTO, naturally paying in equity. But I'm
perfectly fine with it, I believe in good partnerships and so forth. So that's what we did. Then next question became how do we commercialize, how much money do we spend to grow it? You need to build a lot of infrastructure behind it. You still need resources to, you know, Amazon Web Services, nevermind commercial websites or perhaps marketing. And it was 2019, I think.
And I recall like, bought on a graduate to help me with a lot of administration set up, you know, because at the time, by the way, I was, I was working with a few other businesses as well. So this was kind of begun sort of 50 -50 at the beginning to help me. And then realized, you know, I was spreading myself too fit. And...
At that time, towards, I think it was, I was in Oxford, I was still living with my parents. All those MVPs are not free. You know, luckily, at least in sort of an Albanian household, you live rent -free. So that gave me a lot of ground to experiment, to grow. And thereafter, I remember I had about, I think it was, I screenshotted it somewhere. I had £950 left in my bank account.
Besnik (09:34.318)
literally, this is not some kind of smoke and mirror stories. And I thought to myself, I've got to pay this graduate, obviously it was Friday, it was the beginning stages. Like, okay, how much, you know, what am I going to do now? I've got a month left. So we actually, the funniest thing was it's very unexpected, but we grew and I, of Facebook groups. So it's very unusual, it's not advertisement. So I worked with a lot of people, at least a few individuals.
And I was thinking, how am I going to grow this? So I began speaking to influencers and partners and saying, okay, because we had some revenue, but not enough to really cover ground about what we're going to do in the next quarter in 2020. So then what happened was actually, yeah, so 2018 at the end, I can't remember exactly, I've lost track. So then what happened was that I said, you know, I spoke to this feather.
in this owner, you know, had 20 ,000 plus people in his members and groups, all growth hackers, growth marketeers, predominantly the US. And I spoke to him, we did a small ebook. You know, I had a call with him, I tried to explain one anchor feature, because if you're a software tech business, if you want to work with key partners, all it takes is one particular feature for them to be able to resonate and to use that as an anchor point to promote you, whether it's paid or free. In our case, it was completely free because he loved.
the Zapier integration way in which how you can use all the email and LinkedIn data to retarget through Facebook ads where Facebook ads was quite big at the time, right? So, and that's what happened. We created an ebook and we just promoted the business. So the next month we just grew massively. So that's the journey. That's the infliction point.
Tzakhi (11:13.72)
last moment and the last moment literally for you.
Besnik (11:18.99)
Yes, I had no more growth hacking methods to do whilst we use our own tool, but it works. But you know, we're a selling at the beginning, a very low entry price point at what $49 and obviously we increased it to 99 over time, but.
Like you can't, you know, you need large numbers to make that work unless you're enterprise in B2B, AOV or perhaps 20, 30 plus K, then it makes more sense, right? But so that's why we needed, you know, transactional marketing like that to make work. And it was Facebook groups.
Tzakhi (11:51.)
And at what point, if at all, did you think of raising money? Because a lot of founders, I think, in a situation where you were, where you really believe in the potential, it's still early and makes sense. It's hard to get the first customers. And definitely, for SaaS, then your price point is low. And even if you get a bunch of customers in the beginning, it's not enough to.
to really sustain, to sustain a company. So I think a lot of founders would go to raise money at that stage. So what were your thoughts about that?
Besnik (12:21.998)
I guess, you know, be instilled 26 at that time, right? Like, whilst I knew the ecosystem quite well, it was just not the time. I mean, when you're, when you have two, three months, you're going to grow over, you know, your operations are going to cut. So you can either focus on growing the business or raising funds at that time. That was my situation I was under.
But then what happened was we grew enough that I didn't need angel investment. Pre -seed rounds typically was already done. We bought the product with my CTO. So my circumstances for that particular business was that we were self -customer funded. We were customer funded. And so that was kind of our journey. However, this story is naturally not the same for everybody. Everybody has a different product.
And ultimately, it varies. Remember, not micro. We solved the micro problem at that time, right? It wasn't a macro because it was very focused on the particular channels. And then we grew a lot more macro. And this is where the funding piece comes in. So the storage is always different for everybody. But my opinion is once you... Because if I look back in hindsight, right, even as a bootstrap business, I could probably have tripled the revenue that we have in the business in ARR terms, right? Because...
I don't just hire graduates, I don't just hire remote freelancers. At the beginning, stages are really important. Or you hire more developers to reduce churn because you're limiting your developers, you're solving only so much bugs. So I would say that as soon as we grew probably back in 2019 to our first, because we grew the business first 24 months, that's stage over 2 million plus really quickly.
So we managed to then find ways to reinvest it back naturally. You know, we weren't just using it as a cash cow at that time. We still reinvested back into business, into the product. But I would say just to answer your question is that once you know that that growth curve is happening, that's when you seek out investment. But we did it at Vizion, for example. We did it pre -revenue, pre -seed. Because it was a macro problem. It was very difficult. It was very complex. So it really depends on the product. And...
Besnik (14:33.966)
and the intensity of the problem you're solving. So if it's high in macro scale and technology development, you know, what we're doing took us six months to develop. Vizion, for example, took over five years. You need some serial cash before you get to revenue. That's why pre -revenue businesses get funded is because it is high in IP, proprietary.
and beyond, right, for example. So in the case of Salesforce, it's a quick product micro, you want to get some cash in, then you need at least 500K ARR to get good terms with investors at seed level.
Tzakhi (15:11.512)
When you reach that point, did you go out to raise capital?
Besnik (15:15.022)
We didn't, I didn't in fact. Mainly because at that time we were self -funded in the business so we were really focused on how to continue being bootstrapped for example.
We did at one point, I mean we've had many VCs where they came to us, for example, wanted to invest a tremendous amount of money and even now after five years, we're really debating about which path to take. So it comes to a point where you hit a revenue point, VCs are knocking at your door.
and wanted to invest. In that case, your terms are going to be with you. So there are moments worth being considering and to do that. But there were moments where we're like, OK, let's take some money. How fast do we want to grow this? So I think, but I guess this is a lesson to those that are thinking about bootstrapping, because we could have been a lot more. And when I look back, we should have raised money probably when we hit at least our $2 million mark.
personally, to really grow and just take the market even more. But, you know, decision in hindsight is that you're always going to make the right or bad calls. You don't really know ultimately. But I would say when you reach that mark,
I think that's when you sort of look to raise one round personally, you know, because we did it at Vizsha for example, you know, we could have done a lot more. For example, there's a second round of investment we're looking to close as part of what we want to do to get it to revenue and this one we're looking to scale. So there's very different stories and a few other business that we're looking at because we sort of have a whole code at the moment where we're approaching that level. So again, it depends on the micro and micro.
Besnik (17:02.254)
what stage and what terms and what solution you'll solve it. But for me personally, I, you know, when I look back is get to a strong level of unit economics where it just, you get better terms and you raise one round instead of a hundred K, 500 K.
two million, the 10 million series A, get two million of maybe perhaps funding is enough to really create a positive EBITDA to then reinvest back into the business. So that's my view. That way you still remain a lot of control of the business, but equally you're still having enough cash. So you don't have to, I don't know.
look after your mental health because being bootstrapped is not, I think there's a thumbs up, is not always for everybody.
Tzakhi (17:49.944)
Yeah, is there like a consideration of planning how you want to exit or how long do you think you'll reach an exit? Is that also part of the considerations that you had or having when thinking about fundraising?
Besnik (18:08.142)
If I'm not mistaken you're saying what is sort of our exit strategy of sales flow in particular or just generally?
Tzakhi (18:13.824)
Well, the question of whether to bring in outside capital and grow faster, but you're of course paying with part of the company, has to be tied to the end goal and how you see the end goal of the company and what do you expect, how long will it take to reach that end goal. So if the end goal is to be sold, that's one thing, if the end goal is an IPO. So are those some thoughts that you were having?
Besnik (18:43.082)
I think, you know, at that stage you're just focused on how do you just grow the business. It depends.
and where you see it category wise, for example. but ultimately, exit is always on those founders that like, if you, you know, it's like set, you sell a service. Then you sell a business, right? Ultimately, like your goal in business to always sell some way. So, you know, you know, if you sell into IP or you shall sell into a large, you know, list of shareholders that want to invest in and buy stock from your business. So ultimately it's always going to be about a sale. I know.
I know that sometimes I've been dabbling on the hold and keep perspective, depending on the VCs, because some mandates, if you're getting a VC investment, their mandate is between five to eight years, they need their return, ultimately. That's with their LPs, general partners, they need their returns. If you're getting money from just angels, they might be a lot more flexible and long -term, or family offices, for example. So it depends also what you want. But personally, for us,
it's always been in mind to let's grow it five to 10 years and see what happens because there's two, there's ultimately three rates you hold and keep. So you have positive EBITDA and cash and dividends. And B, if you're based from VCs, you're gonna look for either strategic or a private equity buyout. You gotta know sometimes who could buy you out.
What's the market trends in that, whether it's Martech or HR tech, for example, you've got to understand what's the velocity of those deals. Sometimes when I was looking at sales flow and even other businesses, I was looking at the deal pipeline. What's the velocity of that market in terms of acquisition? That's a strong indicator of market confidence ultimately, right? If you look at macroeconomics, you know, and generally, then that gives you an indication that you're entering into a space that has a lot of movement.
Besnik (20:39.47)
So your goal is to ultimately sell, but it's a matter of time, a right valuation of the future. For now, for example, for sales flow, we want to grow to the next stage through different means. We're talking to a lot of different parties to kind of take it to the next level.
Tzakhi (20:57.112)
Yeah, and where's your next stage of growth? Is it going to just new market sectors or what does the future now look like for sales flow?
Besnik (21:08.366)
I think it's a good question because ultimately right now, for example, whilst we're really cementing the multi -channel angle of sales automation, it becomes quite critical, very LinkedIn led. Let's be frank, it's a powerful channel. It still remains powerful. Even with 400 invites, like never mind a thousand emails, it still works. And people still pay the same as they used to do 100 invites, for example. Right. And,
That just shows that the quality aspect of it becomes more important. But what changes is that whoever, if your price point of a business is 99 .199, those guys outbound isn't really going to be for you at all. The AOV, the math doesn't add up. So what we're doing now is going a little bit more towards mid -market that not everybody is typically doing in the space. I mean, some are, so it's a mixture, but not within.
sort of the methods that we're doing. That's why we had huge amounts of CRM integrations with HubSpot, with Salesforce, for example. So we're natively synced to try and push that data and organize that and focus on sort of the mid segment, at least from the ICP perspective. And then secondly,
You know, it's really to do with the tech itself. We have some, we've already added AI before ChaggPD came out. So we had a lot of different features. We're doing icebreakers where you personalize messages beyond high name or...
high company to actually review in your LinkedIn profile and actually use a lot of snippets to personalize outreach. That typical SDR. So we're launched there and data as well becomes really important and focusing with that. We recently, for example, partnered up with Warmly to do intent and signal based outreach. So warm outbound, which is enriching your website data, sending that to SalesFlow to then really convert that.
Besnik (23:11.518)
because a lot of, you know, 2 % conversion rate from websites to demo or trial typically. So there's a lot of customers that you get on your site, you want to leverage that. So we're partnered up warmly to kind of get that data and then to prospect into those, you can double the rate of conversion rate. And to do that, it's really important. It's the same with investment. I know that, you know,
A lot of people you listen into this podcast wondered, you know, how am I going to get in front of people? And ultimately you need to do a lot of automation because you know, you need a lease. I think there was a statistic I saw somewhere online, you need a thousand.
you know, responses just to get to a really serious investment term sheets to be sent over to you. So I think, you know, automation is going to be needed. You got to outreach both by email and LinkedIn directly to principal associates or general partners. And to do that, you do have to automate, you know, and plus here, long as you can start engaged, you can, it's okay to automate long as you have.
the right data. And I think this is where a lot of people have to accumulate automation with the right data because it.
If you have the right data, you want to increase your conversion rates of investor interest using both LinkedIn and email. The whole point of why we say multi -channel, multi -tie channel, you know, to a lot of different people is because you don't burn leads by just assuming if you go directly, just LinkedIn and nobody's following up. And, you know, you assume that, no, they're not interested. It's not the case that maybe they're not engaged there. They're, they don't go onto LinkedIn. It's same with email. Perhaps it's got lost, a spam that you're not aware of. So.
Besnik (24:59.552)
And that's why you say, okay, do you know what? If somebody hasn't responded to my email, you go to LinkedIn and you outreach there. Can you imagine now you all of a sudden you have double the touch points and doubled opportunities for somebody to engage with you. So I think in hindsight that statistics really becomes important for a lot of folks to secure those meetings, to secure investment.
Tzakhi (25:22.154)
Yeah, we tackle the, you know, these are the same problems that often we deal with with the founders that we help.
connect with investors, specifically angel investors. One thing that we do is we check the activity level of the investors before reaching out to them. So it improves the statistics by a lot. So you only reach out to people that you see that are engaged on LinkedIn. If they don't reply, then it's probably not because they missed your message. But yeah, using an extra channel would definitely improve results, I'm sure. And...
It sounds like the right direction. Ms. Neek, thanks so much. This was great. Before we go, I would really love you to share a few tips, five tips for the founders listening to the show from your experience so far.
Besnik (26:17.518)
Absolutely. So I think ultimately it's about, as I mentioned my story, like you got to build sweat equity. What I mean right now is you have a hundred or 50 % of effectively nothing. And you need to show something, whether it's an MVP, whether it's some growth, some initial traction. And this is very typical, but you have to show it, you know, cause you know, at the end of the day, 1 % of
I think it was 1 % total company funded. So I'd say put in some of your own sweat equity. Make that equity valuable by adding IP or something beyond, before just assuming I have an idea, a napkin. You need to put on your own savings that you've done in your previous works or jobs, unless you're a student, in which case get a grant. Get some...
innovation from your faculty or you know, good to accelerator if you're a different age, if you've got no experience, you need to understand your own circumstances as well. So he is building your own sweat equity a lot of the time because I've met many, you know, because I've invested, I've advised a lot of SaaS businesses and so forth. And a lot of them will want to get investment before, you know, that kind of an idea.
in which case, you know, your chance is not 1 % anymore, they're 0 .1. So to increase the chances of success, sorry.
Tzakhi (27:38.008)
Especially now. Yeah. Especially now in today's market, for sure.
Besnik (27:43.63)
I honestly, I totally agree. Things are, I guess, maybe picking up in the future, but right now you need more than sweat equity or just an IP. They want to see numbers that this is closer to de -risk your opportunity there. So I would really say about you have to put even more work now. And now all of a sudden bootstrap is not becoming something just cool. It's a necessity.
Because you're showing as a business at minimal, not just capital, but resources, you can get revenue. Right? And most people get VC money because they can grow what's already working faster. So then it becomes about speed. So I would say just sweat equity. And I don't mean in a sense where you just don't get equity. I mean, you know, you got to put in the work hard and build the MVP. If you can't build it, get a CTO.
If you can't get a CTO, go to an accelerator, match yourself up. So, or learn how to code, basically. So that would be my first one is really around, it's a bit more philosophical, but sweat equity. The next one to increase again, sort of the theme of chances of success is make sure you work in, you've worked in a startup before. A lot of people here, when I talk to a lot of folks, they come from corporate backgrounds sometimes I'm like,
you're about to enter, do you know what you're gonna go through right now, dude? Like, it's a whole different story. It's a whole different journey, you know? And so either you have to work for a startup or at least at the minimum be a domain expert in the problem that you're gonna solve. In my case, I was solving my own problem. There's no better person that really knows the core of the problem.
details than your experience yourself versus trying to solve someone else's problem because you might not have been through the same experience. So the next one really is about experience even startups or your industry because even if you get the money you're still going to have to work hard and make it a success. You don't want to work five years and up shut down the business and get in what? Just experience. Like yes it's valuable but it's you know it's not easy because the failure rates are still high so I think the increases
Besnik (30:04.)
success rate is really focused on working either in a startup before you do it, work on a site perhaps, but work in a startup really, really ideally in the industry that you're about to go into. So that's number two perhaps and I think next it's about most people should not get stuck into one experiment. Before I landed and realized in Facebook groups,
are going to be an initial channel of traction. There were huge amounts of experimentation across different channels, different unconventional things that you don't even think of, whether it's Reddit or you're trying to do, still try in particular.
ad set that's going to work but it's not yielding or you want to try something else. I think most people is really experimenting like wildfire because at least at the beginning you can prove that this channel has enough volume to grow into. If you were to go into that pool and say great I've got one customer there but there's a lot more for example then if you use that statistic and data to your investors you know okay actually I can see that this money is going to be used to pull more of that fish of that pond.
for example, right, ultimately, or it's a lake even better if it's an ocean, then you know, it's a different story. So I think first just experiment to find that channel that will get you the first customers. Because if you say, how are you gonna get customers you don't know, you're gonna struggle to raise that money. So, and that's what we did, huge amounts, even with Vizhont from a product perspective, MVP.
when we got, we raised, I think, the vision over 1 .3 million with Gianluca. So, and now I think over time you kind of learn. And I think the next one is just about the further understanding unit economics. Like not everybody comes from a finance background, but if you, you know, you need to understand pricing strategies, you need to understand CAC.
Besnik (32:12.558)
retention, churn, if you're on SaaS, you know, I appreciate everybody is in different fields, but do you know your unit economics from top, middle and lower of the funnel process? I'm not talking just marketing, I'm talking about payback periods. If you invest in this, when do you expect to be paid back if it's a real current business? So I think these statistics, you need to learn at minimum.
to be able to go to investors and say, this is how I'm gonna be making you money. You raise maybe 100K or a million at least, what are you gonna do with that money? How are we gonna allocate resources? So put yourself as a fund manager, right? Because it's a CEO, you ultimately pop for strategy and other things, you become a fund manager.
You have to allocate resources to the right channels, to the right people in order to increase revenues, perhaps. So I think the tip here is if you don't know your statistics, top of the funnel, either get advisors, there's a growth mentor and a lot of advisors out there that can teach you how to do that. Be self -teach yourself all these statistics.
Or, you know, ultimately, if you don't do any of these, your investors, you're going to end up burning for leads because you got to meet him. Someone loves your idea, but they don't think you cut out because you don't have, you know, do you know what EBITDA and OPEX mean? Like of your cash flow statement. I'll be honest, in my early days, in my three, four ventures, I didn't know. I did obviously business law and business finance, but it's different in practice.
and you don't know how to really ultimately apply it. So I've learned huge amounts over the years, now I'm to a point where it's second nature. So I'd say really understand your unit economics end to end, both from marketing all the way to finance and ops. And a final one really, I think, it's, I think comes in resilience. Most people, you know, I come from a background where I bootstrapped all these businesses over the last 12 years.
Besnik (34:16.59)
and to come after 10 of VPs and still not make a dime takes a crazy morpho to get it done. I'm not gonna swear but ultimately you have to have a level of...
love for technology in my case, love for what you're doing to actually make it work. So I think preservation is even for investors, meaning that just because you haven't got to respond to a meeting after six months, after a thousand people, and you know you've got a great idea, but you do need that few million to really push it, you keep going for another year, you know, ultimately. So I think here is just about, eventually you'll find the right fit investors based on who they've invested in the past.
and using the right tech to automate a lot of that because it takes a lot of hard work and the right data set to make it work. So we've had many people, even, you know, use Sales Flow, other tools, by the way, in the market to try and scale that to increase the chances of success since, you know, the five tips here is actually how do you increase the chance of success both in fundraising but also for your business initially as a bootstrap.
Tzakhi (35:25.88)
Yeah, brilliant. Thanks so much, Ms. Nick. I think these were very, very interesting and useful. And I think a lot of the stuff you said is relevant to raising capital, but it's also just in general to building a business that's successful, which ultimately, and it seems sometimes people forget, ultimately, this is what startups are about, building a successful business.
Okay, whoever's listening, please subscribe wherever you are on Spotify, YouTube, wherever. And of course, if you haven't already come to Meet .Capitol, subscribe to our newsletter.
I'll also add, you mentioned talking to an advisor. We have excellent advisors on board at Meet .Capital, including Ivan Ho that can teach you about your, help you set your finances straight and build a financial plan with you. So check that out. Ms. Nika, thanks so much. We'll include a link to Sales Flow, of course. Anything else that people should know about?
Besnik (36:28.974)
No, I think you nailed it. Zahi, thank you as well equally. And I think financial planning, and let me tell you one minor, I totally agree that you need the right advisors, especially at the beginning. If it's your first time founders, especially, I can recommend it. I went through the trenches for this stuff. And I could look at yourself to save millions of revenue, having the right advisors and the right people to help you plan and forecast.
Tzakhi (36:29.656)
you and connecting with you.
Besnik (36:55.182)
it's needed. So yeah, thank you for the invite and speaking Sahih. Pleasure.
Tzakhi (37:02.488)
Thanks so much for listening. Thank you.
Besnik (37:04.462)
Take care, bye bye.
